I remember filming an in person webinar or something with you and you were snapping at your team about how they should be taking notes. Later at dinner you called me out on my shit, and later on a coaching call you did the same. It was stone cold but so fucking wise and I really appreciated it. To me clarity delivered is kind. I have always thought you were so cool and had such a business crush on you.
That's really nice, Amanda. I totally remember that night that we filmed. I don't have very many pictures from that time in my life, but I have a bunch of pictures of you and me sitting on the couch together. I had so much fun.
You probably have one of the best email lists in the world. There has to be some sort of tradeoff between 'don't freak out at tiny things' and 'but that's how I built this incredible list'.
So funny! This is what I tell Derek during my fits. I tell him if I didn't care about losing one person then I wouldn't have this list. I'm not sure what's true. It's like the lighthouse -- you never know how many ships it saves. My hysteria is my mailing list light house. Or somethign like that.
But how are you not hated for being more competent than anyone else? People whose incompetence shines next to you wouldn’t want to be anywhere near you. Where do you find all those confident and self assured senior managers?
Hmm. I never thought of that. Maybe I don't notice it. I don't think anyone dislikes me for my competence. I think if I were not competent I'd just be booted from the scene much faster.
After reading this, why would anyone hire a working mom ever again? If you are to be believed, you'll only get, at the most, 50% out of that person. SMH
Do you have some sort of math where a working mom gives 100% to work or kids? We all have the same number of hours in the day.
Every mom has 100% of her day to divide however she wants. If she decides to divide 90% to work and 10% to kids, then probably no one will even notice she has kid so she won't be penalized at work. It's all about choosing what percent of your day you give to work. People with stay-at-home spouses can devote more time to work without penalizing their kids. Once I made the decision to give significantly more time to my kids than my work, I found I only met other moms who made the same decision, so we were all doing a bad job at work.
Another way to look at this: Doing a good job is relative, and when some people are doing it full-time, then doing a good job is not a half-time thing - for work or parenting.
This isn't about math. It's about you, declaring that working moms are not good employees and you haven't felt like you've worked with someone good until men came back into your career orbit.
"So I was left working with women taking care of kids. And there are no worse people to work with. After a decade, I realized a team of people with partial attention does not add up to a partial team; it adds up to incompetence."
I think you should read Claudia Goldin's book. She won the Nobel Prize in 2023 for explaining why women working at 100% are not as effective as women working at 50%. I'm sorry that the reality is hard to absorb. It was hard for me, too, which is why I write from personal experience.
Thank you for saying this, Lauren. Implying that all working moms are incompetent at their jobs is simply not my experience. I’m happy to know that I can confidently unsubscribe from this worthless little blog.
Argh. I accidentally deleted my comment when I was trying to delete activity updates to this discussion thread, because I didn't want to see it any more. (I hate substack.) I stand by my comment, so, sorry Steph, but I have to repost.
This was the text of the comment marked as deleted here:
Consider reading these posts a little more lightly. Wrapping grains of truth in hyperbole is entertaining. It's brutal, shocking, and can be funny.
We live in a capitalist society that places high value on people who devote their lives to work. I personally admire mothers who put their children first, and I live by that.
I'm not as productive as my peers at the same talent and skill level who are devoting more time, energy and mental load to the job. So be it. I'm carrying the mental load of the household. I’m leaving early to take my children to their activities.
I’m also working at a startup. It matters that I’m not putting in the hours and that I make mistakes due to divided attention. I can see why people wouldn’t want to work with me.
But I want a different society- one that values children and families and one that gives people time and space to make and do great things. Denying reality won’t get us there. So, meanwhile, I like to read the brutal truth. Penelope sees it, can cut right to it, and can write about it in an entertaining way.
PS Maybe what Penelope is seeing is that there is a time and season for things in the arc of a life in a capitalist society. If I had known it was going to be like this, I would have structured the arcs of my career and child raising differently.
Who is “denying reality”exactly? How privileged that you can leave early to take your kids to their enrichment activities. The brutal truth is that most working moms and dads cannot. This is not entertaining or funny to me. I can see why no one would want to work with either of you.
First, this blog is geared towards professionals and my comments are structured as such. I very much understand that a majority of people cannot structure their work around their family lives, and it’s not fair.
But a lot of professionals do have some flexibility. I’m a software engineer and I don’t work for a company that demands in-person time 5 days a week. My sister is a nurse who has structured her job so she can take time during the week to provide caregiving to our parents.
I’m sorry that you are so angry. Your comment doesn’t indicate whether you have flexibility or can move to a position of flexibility. If you can’t, I’m sorry. If you can, your comment is disingenuous.
So the difficult coworker is the part-time working woman with kids. It’s possible she is if she is nice and not calling out her colleagues and boss when they are doing a poor job. And she won’t, especially if she needs that job. Regardless if it is for the money, so she too can get a moment of talking and thinking about business or if it would be easier for her to gear up when the kids leave the nest. (If they do).
In all honesty, women don’t know what is going to wait for them when the kid(s) arrive. Or even what type of child they will have and how many special needs will they have…
If we go by this logic, the best job for a woman is to be a teacher. In with the kids and out when the kids are done with school so she can be with them. Will she be more competent because with this job she can be there 100%? Will she have the same levels of satisfaction and engagement?
I would also wonder if we are opening part-time job positions for a role that should not be done part-time to begin with…
I remember filming an in person webinar or something with you and you were snapping at your team about how they should be taking notes. Later at dinner you called me out on my shit, and later on a coaching call you did the same. It was stone cold but so fucking wise and I really appreciated it. To me clarity delivered is kind. I have always thought you were so cool and had such a business crush on you.
That's really nice, Amanda. I totally remember that night that we filmed. I don't have very many pictures from that time in my life, but I have a bunch of pictures of you and me sitting on the couch together. I had so much fun.
I want to be offended about the women with kids and partial attention at work. But it's true 😭
You probably have one of the best email lists in the world. There has to be some sort of tradeoff between 'don't freak out at tiny things' and 'but that's how I built this incredible list'.
So funny! This is what I tell Derek during my fits. I tell him if I didn't care about losing one person then I wouldn't have this list. I'm not sure what's true. It's like the lighthouse -- you never know how many ships it saves. My hysteria is my mailing list light house. Or somethign like that.
But how are you not hated for being more competent than anyone else? People whose incompetence shines next to you wouldn’t want to be anywhere near you. Where do you find all those confident and self assured senior managers?
Hmm. I never thought of that. Maybe I don't notice it. I don't think anyone dislikes me for my competence. I think if I were not competent I'd just be booted from the scene much faster.
After reading this, why would anyone hire a working mom ever again? If you are to be believed, you'll only get, at the most, 50% out of that person. SMH
Do you have some sort of math where a working mom gives 100% to work or kids? We all have the same number of hours in the day.
Every mom has 100% of her day to divide however she wants. If she decides to divide 90% to work and 10% to kids, then probably no one will even notice she has kid so she won't be penalized at work. It's all about choosing what percent of your day you give to work. People with stay-at-home spouses can devote more time to work without penalizing their kids. Once I made the decision to give significantly more time to my kids than my work, I found I only met other moms who made the same decision, so we were all doing a bad job at work.
Another way to look at this: Doing a good job is relative, and when some people are doing it full-time, then doing a good job is not a half-time thing - for work or parenting.
This isn't about math. It's about you, declaring that working moms are not good employees and you haven't felt like you've worked with someone good until men came back into your career orbit.
"So I was left working with women taking care of kids. And there are no worse people to work with. After a decade, I realized a team of people with partial attention does not add up to a partial team; it adds up to incompetence."
I think you should read Claudia Goldin's book. She won the Nobel Prize in 2023 for explaining why women working at 100% are not as effective as women working at 50%. I'm sorry that the reality is hard to absorb. It was hard for me, too, which is why I write from personal experience.
Thank you for saying this, Lauren. Implying that all working moms are incompetent at their jobs is simply not my experience. I’m happy to know that I can confidently unsubscribe from this worthless little blog.
Argh. I accidentally deleted my comment when I was trying to delete activity updates to this discussion thread, because I didn't want to see it any more. (I hate substack.) I stand by my comment, so, sorry Steph, but I have to repost.
This was the text of the comment marked as deleted here:
Consider reading these posts a little more lightly. Wrapping grains of truth in hyperbole is entertaining. It's brutal, shocking, and can be funny.
We live in a capitalist society that places high value on people who devote their lives to work. I personally admire mothers who put their children first, and I live by that.
I'm not as productive as my peers at the same talent and skill level who are devoting more time, energy and mental load to the job. So be it. I'm carrying the mental load of the household. I’m leaving early to take my children to their activities.
I’m also working at a startup. It matters that I’m not putting in the hours and that I make mistakes due to divided attention. I can see why people wouldn’t want to work with me.
But I want a different society- one that values children and families and one that gives people time and space to make and do great things. Denying reality won’t get us there. So, meanwhile, I like to read the brutal truth. Penelope sees it, can cut right to it, and can write about it in an entertaining way.
PS Maybe what Penelope is seeing is that there is a time and season for things in the arc of a life in a capitalist society. If I had known it was going to be like this, I would have structured the arcs of my career and child raising differently.
Who is “denying reality”exactly? How privileged that you can leave early to take your kids to their enrichment activities. The brutal truth is that most working moms and dads cannot. This is not entertaining or funny to me. I can see why no one would want to work with either of you.
First, this blog is geared towards professionals and my comments are structured as such. I very much understand that a majority of people cannot structure their work around their family lives, and it’s not fair.
But a lot of professionals do have some flexibility. I’m a software engineer and I don’t work for a company that demands in-person time 5 days a week. My sister is a nurse who has structured her job so she can take time during the week to provide caregiving to our parents.
I’m sorry that you are so angry. Your comment doesn’t indicate whether you have flexibility or can move to a position of flexibility. If you can’t, I’m sorry. If you can, your comment is disingenuous.
So the difficult coworker is the part-time working woman with kids. It’s possible she is if she is nice and not calling out her colleagues and boss when they are doing a poor job. And she won’t, especially if she needs that job. Regardless if it is for the money, so she too can get a moment of talking and thinking about business or if it would be easier for her to gear up when the kids leave the nest. (If they do).
In all honesty, women don’t know what is going to wait for them when the kid(s) arrive. Or even what type of child they will have and how many special needs will they have…
If we go by this logic, the best job for a woman is to be a teacher. In with the kids and out when the kids are done with school so she can be with them. Will she be more competent because with this job she can be there 100%? Will she have the same levels of satisfaction and engagement?
I would also wonder if we are opening part-time job positions for a role that should not be done part-time to begin with…
The post I think back to often:
Penelope Trunk’s “I Miss The Men”
https://education.penelopetrunk.com/2011/12/22/i-miss-the-men/
I think this piece works in tandem with the one she just wrote, if anyone’s down here in the comments reading
This made me remember the “I miss the men” post. One of my favorites of yours (and I have a lot of favorites.)
It is an honor and a privilege to be on your email list! This piece is so relatable. Thank you.
Awww. Thank you so much.